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USA må gå sammen med Kina
om at finde sin bestemmelse
på Månens bagside.
LaRouchePAC Internationale
fredags-webcast, 27. maj 2016,
med Lyndon LaRouche m.fl.

USA må gå sammen med Kina
om at finde sin bestemmelse
på Månens bagside.
LaRouchePAC Internationale
fredags-webcast, 27. maj 2016,
med Lyndon LaRouche m.fl.

Dette er et øjeblik, i hvilket vi absolut må mobilisere, for verden … har nået til et beslutningens øjeblik … der vil afgøre menneskehedens retning for de næste 50, 100 eller flere år. Det er nu, vi må beslutte, hvorvidt vi aktuelt befinder os i en nedtælling til Tredje Verdenskrig mellem atommagter, som det ønskes af Obama og hans britiske ‘controllers’; eller, om denne periode er begyndelsen til et absolut nyt, globalt system, baseret på et fuldstændig nyt princip, hvis standard er gensidigt samarbejde og gensidig gavn, til menneskehedens fremme som helhed. 

Engelsk udskrift.  


The United States Must Join China to find its Destiny on the Far Side of the Moon.

Webcast, May 27, 2016:

        MEGAN BEETS:  Good evening.  This is Friday, May 27, 2016.
And I'd like to welcome all of you to our regular Friday evening
broadcast here at LaRouche PAC.  My name is Megan Beets; and I'm
joined in the studio today by Ben Deniston and by Lyndon
LaRouche.  We're joined via video by three members of the
LaRouche PAC Policy Committee:  Michael Steger in San Francisco,
California; Kesha Rogers in Houston, Texas; and Diane Sare,
currently in New Jersey, but joining us from our Manhattan
        This weekend in the United States is Memorial Day weekend;
which is a holiday which was created after the Civil War to honor
the sacrifice of our fallen soldiers, including those soldiers
who fought in World War II and gave their lives to the defeat of
fascism in the 20th Century.  This is a moment in which we
absolutely mobilize, because the world sits now, and has reached
a point of decision — a {punctum saliens} which will determine
the direction of humanity for the next 50, 100, or more years.
It's now that we must decide whether we are currently going to be
in a countdown to World War III between thermonuclear powers, as
is the want of Obama and his British controllers; or whether this
period is the beginning of an absolutely new global system, based
upon a completely new principle.  The standard of which is mutual
cooperation, mutual benefit for the advancement of mankind as a
        If you take a step back, and you look at the world as a
whole — which can sometimes be difficult for Americans, in
particular, to do — if you look at the global situation as one,
the tensions between these two potential futures couldn't be more
clear.  For example, on the one hand, you had an incredible
development this week in Iran; on Monday, May 23, President
Rouhani of Iran declared May 23 to be Chabahar Day.  This
declaration was made to mark and to celebrate an historic
agreement which was signed in Iran between the President of Iran,
Prime Minister Modi of India, and the President of Afghanistan;
who had gathered to sign agreements toward joint cooperation and
collaboration, a $20 billion investment to build up the port of
Chabahar in southeast Iran, which opens up to the Arabian Sea.
        This project is a great victory for the cause of the World
Land-Bridge, which Lyn, you and your wife Helga have organized
for, for quite some time.  And this crucial project will
integrate India, Afghanistan, and Iran, and potential future
partners like Pakistan and China; and it opens up new shipping
routes, new trade routes, and new potentialities for the
development of potentially the entire south Eurasian region, to
integrate it up into Europe.  Just to add one more detail, very
importantly, this gives landlocked Afghanistan, which as we know
has been decimated by the policies of the Bush and Obama
administrations, access to the Arabian Sea.
        Aside from the details, more importantly, is this spirit of
cooperation which was expressed by President Rouhani at the
signing celebration; where he said, about the Day of Chabahar,
"This is a very important day for Iranians.  And from now on, it
is going to be even more important; because today is going to
mark the day of cooperation among the three of us — Iran, India,
and Afghanistan."  He said, "Today's document is not just an
economic document.  It is actually a political and a regional
one, and its message is that countries need to utilize the
opportunities provided by the region in order to develop, and
also expand cooperation."  And then, at the same ceremony,
President Modi noted the long unified history of India and Iran.
        At virtually the same time that Modi was in Iran, the
President of India was in China on a four-day visit, where he
spoke at Beijing University on the topic of "India-China
Relations; 8 Steps to a People-Centric Partnership".  He said,
"India and China are poised to play a significant and
constructive role in the 21st Century.  When Indians and Chinese
come together to address global challenges and build on their
shared interests, there will be no limits to what our two peoples
can jointly achieve."  He also noted particularly that China and
India are young countries, full of young people.  And he said
that "Both sides should work with the aim of insuring that we do
not burden our coming generations by leaving unresolved problems
to them.  Both India and China are young societies, and our youth
share common aspirations and perceptions."
        Just to quickly add another part of the picture, are the
interesting and potentially very important actions of President
Abe of Japan; who in the recent period, has begun to move towards
agreements for cooperation both with President Putin in Russia,
and also with China, against the explicit orders of Obama and the
British, who demand that Japan maintain the historic geopolitical
conflict and enmity with both of those nations.  So, this is a
new world which is developing; but on the other hand, Obama is
still in office in the United States, because the American people
and the Congress have refused to throw him out.  And Obama today
is visiting Hiroshima; the first US President to make that visit
since the completely unnecessary bombing of that city over 70
years ago.  Leading into this visit, Obama not only refused to
apologize for that bombing that killed over 100,000 people; but
he also defended the actions of Harry Truman, saying that
sometimes Presidents in warfare have to make tough decisions.
        That characterizes exactly why [Obama’s] in Asia; to attempt
to drum up among the Asian nations against China.  Now, this
won't work, but it only fans the flames of any potential war and

        BENJAMIN DENISTON:  Lyn, I don't know if you have any direct
thoughts on that, but I think the immediate counterpoint to that,
as you're saying, under Obama, is this build-up to the war danger
as the direct threat.  I think what we're seeing with these
developments in central Asia, these agreements, is just another
step in this new strategic bloc centered around really Russia's
and China's leadership.  As we were discussing earlier today,
completely in tandem with that, is the escalation of the threat
of war; Obama being kind of the face of it.  But really coming
from the British as an attempt to break down this threat to their
empire, centered around Russia and China.  It's notable just to
emphasize, we're going, in July is going to be this next NATO
summit; where they're going to try and solidify the establishment
of putting four new battalions, of about 1000 troops each, up in
Eastern Europe right on the border of Russia.  It's been noted
that this is potentially the largest forward basing of a military
presence on Russia's borders since when?  Since the Nazis in
World War II.  So, you have this explicit clear escalation; and
that's coming up in July.  That's the intention for this.  And
that's in the context of the entire NATO policy perpetually to
move closer and closer to Russia's borders; a policy that we, the
United States, promised we wouldn't do.  We made that promise to
Russia as the Soviet Union began to collapse; and we've
completely reneged on that, and pushed it further and further and
further.  And now this is really coming to a breaking point; and
Lyn, your wife Helga, from her reading from Europe, she's been
saying that she thinks there is a real growing recognition.
We've been saying it; we know it's happening.  You've been
sounding the alarm on this; but she thought it was interesting
that even conservative elements in Germany for example —
elements that might not usually be so vocal on this — are coming
out and warning that we're on the path to war under this current
policy.  Particularly, an article in {Die Welt} recently, which
is generally one of the major conservative papers in Germany; so
you wouldn't expect this concern over this war drive.  But her
assessment was that that being raised now was reflecting a kind
of breaking open of recognition and potential freak-out around
the fact that this thing is heading towards a real potential
conflict; and this is not something you walk away from.  You're
talking about thermonuclear war; you're not talking about any
kind of conflict mankind's ever had before.

        LYNDON LAROUCHE:  Well, the crucial issue here is not detail
as such; the crucial thing is what creates a higher standard of
performance of the human individual in society.  Now, that thing
is not treated seriously in any ordinary sense; they don't
recognize it.  They don't recognize the need to change the
productivity of the per capita personality of society; that is
not recognized.  What is recognized is, how cheap is the labor;
and no matter how poor the quality of performance of the labor,
how cheap is the labor.  We see this in the United States as a
trend; a backward trend.  We see it very clearly; the United
States is degenerated.  It was degenerated; it was done under the
influence of the British.  You had people like the Bushes and
Obama; these people are a destructive force.  Their very
existence destroys the productive capabilities of the human
population.  So therefore, you have to get rid of these guys and
replace them with people who are competent; which has not been
done.  So what you see, the degeneration of the quality of labor
inside the United States is typical of this kind of phenomena.
So, this is something which is more British than it is American.
But it's been stuck in the United States.  And therefore, all
these ideas that you can measure things simply is wrong; it
doesn't work that way.  Mankind creates by mankind itself creates
a capability of creation; and that's what's important.
        Now then, you have to support that which you have
discovered; that's what the problem is.  And the usual procedure
and interpretation is worthless and actually destructive.

        DENISTON:  You look at what gets presented as ostensible
value in economics discussion today, it's ridiculous.  Economic
value is a product of the human mind; resources are creations of
mankind that create wealth, that create value.  It's not going
out finding resources or exploiting labor forces, getting the
cheapest labor; that's not the substance of what enables — in my
mind, the core issue is what is the science of mankind's relation
to the universe.  It's kind of a general way to put it; and I
think that maybe passes over a lot of people's heads.  But you're
looking at how is it that mankind exists in the universe?
Mankind doesn't exist in a fixed way, mankind can intervene to
change that relationship.  If we're not looking at that, then
we're not talking about mankind.

        LAROUCHE:  Well, mankind has to be changed; that's a
necessary factor.  And mankind is changed how?  By being exposed
to responsibility for doing things which were not able to be done
by human beings at an earlier stage.  And therefore, the question
is the improvement of the quality of the personal individual in
society is the crucial element.  You find you have the people
working for Wall Street; they're worthless.

        DENISTON:  That's a nice way to put it.

        LAROUCHE:  They are actually worthless people.  And most of
society in the United States today is full of worthless people;
because they have been degenerated below the level of what
humanity was capable of doing earlier.  Now they go back to a
lower level; you see the high death rates among employed people
during the recent course of time.  Therefore, the process of the
government has become a force of destruction of the human
individual.  That's why the problem becomes apparent; because you
recognize, "Wait a minute! You're saying that my existence is
inferior?"  "Yes."  Why is that the case? Because society wants a
lower standard of productivity; things like the space program are
gone.  The removal of the space program from the achievement of
the original space program, which was done in Germany and in the
United States —

        DENISTON:  Krafft Ehricke and all his allies, yeah.

        LAROUCHE:  Yeah.  This thing is what was being crushed.  So
therefore, the human mind was being crushed; but the lesson is
that what were the technologies that we were introducing for
practice were technologies which inherently had a higher value of
productivity than anything else.  And that's what's overlooked.
        The idea of cheap labor; cheap labor is a disease.  What you
need is a higher standard of achievement of the human mind;
leading to a higher standard of development of the human mind.
That's what's important; that's the crucial issue.

        BEETS:  I think when we start to think about where in the US
do you have a population that could be moved to restore the
demand for such a human standard, you've put the emphasis on
Manhattan.  And I was wondering if Diane wanted to say a few
things; because we have a conference coming up there this weekend
that both you and Helga will be participating in.

        LAROUCHE:  All you have to do to destroy the human power of
creativity is to take California, southern California, the
universities and several institutions in California, and go from
what had been the case, to what was the case.  And when you had a
certain sexual maniac who took over southern California, you
understand exactly what the problem is.

        DENISTON:  A pretty pathetic movie star; a Nazi, a Hitler
admirer at that.  Schwarzenegger, yeah.  I mean, you talk about
degeneration; you raised California.  To me, the emblematic
family is the Brown family.  You look at Jerry Brown, you look at
Pat Brown, his father, Edmund Pat Brown; he was one of the last
echoes, reverberations of the Franklin Roosevelt orientation.  He
built up the state — the water projects, the educational system,
the schools.  When I started going to school, you could go to a
decent junior college for tens of dollars for a class.  It was
affordable; people could afford education.  And it's just been
completely destroyed.  It was all built up under this
Roosevelt-style administration of Pat Brown; then you look at
Jerry Brown — "Governor Moon Beam" as he was called in his first
term — a total degenerate.  Now they're talking about — Michael
Steger might have more to say on this — now they're talking
about permanently shutting down large sections of the
agricultural region in California because they're running out of
water.  The idiocy is astounding.  They're sitting there, a huge
coastline on the biggest ocean on the entire planet; and they're
saying, "We can't find any water; we don't have any water.  We
have to just shut things down."  And the fact that people go
along with that, is just insane.
        You talk about degeneration; look at what we used to have
under the leadership of Pat Brown.  We had some things in
between; we had this disgusting figure Schwarzenegger, who was a
total British agent himself.  And then this Jerry Brown thing is
just emblematic of the degeneration and the Green policy
takeover; what's happened to the population in the United States.

        LAROUCHE:  The lesson is, that there's a principle of
organization of productivity in terms of the human individual;
and that's what you have to focus on.  That factor.  Without that
factor, you have no progress.  As a matter of fact, mankind
ceases to be mankind; mankind is reduced to something which is a
pseudo mankind formula, but it's not actual.  It's something
which is mechanical; it's something which is simply constructed.
But the creative power of the individual, the creative power
which is acquired by the individual in society, is the thing
which makes it work.  It's not just, "This will make it work.
This will make it better."  No.  Mankind has to produce within
the ranks of mankind itself, the ability to achieve degrees of
productivity beyond anything beforehand; that has always been the
policy.  Since the beginning, shall we say so to speak; and it
was always like that.  When you lose that, then you lose your
very characteristic of the human species.

        DENISTON:  Be fruitful and multiply.

        LAROUCHE:  Multiply, I don't know; they're kind of lazy
these days.

        DIANE SARE:  I had one very specific comment on this,
actually, which is very interesting, from our earlier discussion;
and then when I heard what President Obama had to say in his
speech in Hiroshima.  Where he says, he talks about supposedly
the development of mankind; and this is Obama's take on man.
"Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very
first man.  Our early ancestors, having learned to make blades
from flint and spears from wood, used these tools not just for
hunting, but against their own kind.  On every continent, the
history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by
scarcity of grain or hunger for gold; compelled by nationalist
fervor or religious zeal."  Do you hear his stepfather and what
happened in Indonesia in that?
        And I was very struck, because if you take two other great
American leaders, who also gave us their take on the arc of
history, one is Martin Luther King, who people may remember in
his Mountaintop speech, he has the polemic, "If I could travel
with God to any other time in history, when would I want to be
alive?"  So, he talks about the Parthenon; he talks about seeing
Socrates, and Aristotle and Mount Olympus; he talks about the
emperors of the Roman Empire.  He says, "I would come up to the
day of the Renaissance and get a quick picture of all that the
Renaissance did for the cultural and aesthetic life of man; but I
wouldn't stop there."  And then he talks about Abraham Lincoln
and the Emancipation Proclamation; he says, "I wouldn't stop
there.  I would even come up to the early '30s and see a man
grappling with the problems of the bankruptcy of his nation, and
come up with an eloquent cry that 'We have nothing to fear, but
fear itself.'|"  And he says, "Strangely enough, I would turn to
the Almighty and say, 'If you allow me to live just a few years
in the second half of the 20th Century, I will be happy.'|"
        So, that was Martin Luther King; and then the other which
Kesha will be very familiar with, is the speech that President
Kennedy gave at Rice University, where he announces that we're
going to land on the Moon.  And he says, "No man can fully grasp
how far and how fast we have come.  But condense, if you will,
the 50,000 years of man's recorded history in the time span of
but a half century.  Stated in these terms, we know very little
about the first 40 years, except at the end of them, advanced man
had learned how to use the skins of animals to cover them.  Then
about ten years ago, under this standard, man emerged from his
caves to construct other kinds of shelter.  Only five years ago,
man learned how to write and use a cart with wheels.
Christianity began only two years ago.  The printing press came
this year; then, less than two months ago, during this whole
fifty-year span of history, the steam engine provided a new
source of power."  He talks about electric lights —
        In other words, what's the view of Kennedy; what's the view
of Martin Luther King of the development of man?  And then you
take the view of President Obama, which is exactly what you have
expressed here, Lyn, in terms of the total degradation and a
Satanic, destructive outlook.

        LAROUCHE:  I agree, it's real degeneration; definitely

        KESHA ROGERS:  Yeah, and I think it's important to note,
one; why we are gathered here today in the context in which we're
gathered.  As we've been expressing, what is the intention to
create a future state of society where a new species and a new
understanding of what mankind should represent comes into play?
The United States right now has to understand that we have a
unique opportunity to join with the nations of Eurasia — with
China, Russia.  Of the developments which Megan was laying out
earlier, that organize a new direction of a New Paradigm and
progress for mankind; which you have really stated can be brought
into cohesion with a new development of the United States.  This
is why you've put a focus on particularly Manhattan, which was
the center point of the Alexander Hamilton foundation of the
United States; and Texas and California are joining in that
        I think that people really have to get an understanding that
the United States can and must play a crucial role in preventing
what we were discussing earlier as the sabotage of the
orientation that is being put forth by leading nations coming
together and saying that there is a unique quality to mankind
which has to be preserved.  Which is the creative nature of human
beings; and this is what Diane was just expressing.  This has
been amongst leading figures of our nation, from George
Washington, Hamilton, to Lincoln and others, John F Kennedy, have
expressed this quite profoundly.  I think if we look at the fact
that two days on the 25th of May, was the 55th anniversary of
Kennedy's speech to the Joint Session of Congress; and in that
speech, he called for the very task of doing something that at
that point had never been done before.  Creating something
completely new, which was to land a man on the Moon and return
him safely to Earth.  He says, as he's calling for the US to take
that leading role in the space achievement, which he said, "in
many ways, may hold a key to our future on Earth."  That is still
what we face today.
        The new developments being proposed by China on the far side
of the Moon, are going to hold the key not just for China doing
something different for their nation; but for the future of
mankind on Earth.  Because what Kennedy had proposed, has been
hijacked by the likes of the British Empire and those who wanted
to stifle human progress in any way that they could.  So, I think
if we look at the direction the world is going in right now,
there is no reason for people to feel like they have to
capitulate to the stupidity that they're being bombarded with in
Presidential elections, in the media lies that are being told.
        The real issue right now is, what are we actually going to
create as a new direction for mankind?  And what Putin and China
and other nations in that direction are doing is crucial.

        MICHAEL STEGER:  I just would make the point from
California.  It's clear, Lyn, what you've been describing.  Once
you adopt a cheap labor policy, which was explicitly adopted in
California as probably the leading example; you then have no
reason to educate and provoke a higher sense of identity within
your population.  You lose a sense of that mission, and then you
become a slave to the practical, to the mundane, to the
day-to-day survival tactics; and you a kind of destruction of the
culture and life of the nation over these 50 years.  But what
makes it most clear is what you see in the current insanity of
the Presidential election; there's not a focus around this
particular issue, which is Hamilton.  It is what Hamilton drove
to shape the Constitution and the economic policies of the
country; and it is very much what was the spark of consolidating
the organization, and our intervention.  Specifically, around the
Manhattan Project and Hamilton's economic policies; and this
orientation.  Because there is no clear voice coming out of the
trans-Atlantic, except that perspective and that direction for
development.  We see it in Putin; we see it in China.  That
becomes the basis of civilization; that become the basis on which
the trans-Atlantic can turn back to this Hamilton tradition,
which is really the greatest expression of the trans-Atlantic and
economic development up until the modern period.  So really
becomes the fight defining the political fight in the United
States to reject Obama; because there is a loss of standard in
the American people.  There is a loss of victory, of triumph, in
the minds and the culture of the American population today.
They're accepting their own form of slavery.  And that really
becomes the challenge.

        SARE:  I can report from Manhattan that one of the flanks on
this situation — and I think given that it is Memorial Day —
all Americans should resolve ourselves, as Abraham Lincoln said
in his speech at Gettysburg, that "those who have died" like the
people who died on 9/11, as well as of course the people who
voluntarily enlisted and fought in the wars; World War II in
particular, "have not died in vain."  To that end, one; I would
just like to say for viewers of this website, tomorrow at
12:30pm, we will be live streaming a Memorial Day event from
Manhattan.  Which will begin with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, and then
at 3pm, with Lyn yourself, Mr. LaRouche in a dialogue with the
citizens of Manhattan, to get another inflection point after the
Schiller Institute on April 7th.  It's clear that that was viewed
with some hope by international audiences; that there could be
signs of intelligent life in the United States, as it was viewed
with terror by people on behalf of the British Empire like the
Saudis.  It was not too long after that, that "60 Minutes" aired
the special on the 28 pages; on the role of the Saudis in
perpetrating the murder of 3000 Americans on September 11th, and
the role of the FBI in covering it up.  I would say that
particularly in Manhattan — although it is the case in other
parts of the country — but particularly in Manhattan, people are
not prepared now to put the genie back in the bottle.  They want
the truth; they would like the United States to be restored to
its Constitutional role as Alexander Hamilton intended, and not
as a cat's paw for the British Empire.  The Saudis, I think, are
aware of this; so I think people should also know that the Saudi
lobbyists are on a full-front, heavily funded deployment into
Washington DC to try and clean up their image with glossy
pamphlets and PR firms that are getting paid $200,000 a month, to
try and promote themselves as the most wonderful allies of the
United States in the war on terror and the leaders in the fight
against terrorism.  This is simply not going to fly.  As much
corruption as there is in Washington DC, it's a little much to
have people parading around as the purveyors of justice when they
publicly beheaded 47 people to usher in the New Year.
        So, I think we're coming to a point where it's clear the
United States is going to take a decision; and I find what Megan
referenced at the beginning — the shift that perhaps is
occurring in Japan at this moment — is also a potential shift in
the United States at this time.

        DENISTON:  In that context, I really think the 9/11 issue is
critical; and Obama's role in the whole thing.  As we've been
saying, people have to get their heads out of the gutter on this
election stuff; people view these elections like a sporting game
or something.  Root for their team versus another team.  We've
got an issue immediately before us of this guy Obama is a killer;
he has to be pulled out of office.  We cannot tolerate him
running the country.  And just typical of that is his commitment
to completely cover up the heinous murder of Americans on
American soil in our history; just cover that up.  No justice;

        LAROUCHE:  That was Obama; that's Obama's operation.  And
Obama's sitting there still; being an abomination.

        DENISTON:  That's his number one career asset, is being an

        LAROUCHE:  That's exactly it; and the point is that if
people don't recognize that, they're going to find themselves in
an Obamanation situation.

        ROGERS:  Last night on the discussion with the activists,
you were speaking about the space program, and you said that the
space program goes to the right of the human individual and it's
essential for human existence.  I think that's what we're dealing
with right now; the human individual under Obama, has been denied
rights, and particularly the rights to life.  Because you have a
murderous policy, and if you take what has been put forth under
the war drive, closer and closer to thermonuclear war, the policy
coming from Obama around the healthcare; just to name a few.
When you talk about what are the rights of the human individual,
that is being denied; and that is what people should be actually
fighting for.  The understanding has to become, how do you
actually know and understand those rights as a human being?  What
powers do human beings possess that go beyond just the
simplistics of life that people try to hold on to and depend on,
which gets to a higher state of existence?  Which is really
missing from the discussion of most of the ordinary discussion of
society today.

        LAROUCHE:  Well, the development of the science of human
discovery, which was presented by a great individual who was
originally German; and then became domesticated, shall we say, in
terms of the United States.  And he became the secret agent, so
to speak, for the progress of the human species throughout the
planet.  And that case, that example, is extremely important;
because what's important is not what mankind does, or what the
individual does physically.  That's not really that important.
What's important is the ability to create a discovery of a
principle of productivity which is far advanced beyond what
mankind has experienced so far; that's the point.  And that is
where the United States has lost most of its achievement; and
that's what has to be corrected.

        DENISTON:  And space forces that issue today.

        LAROUCHE:  Yeah; because without that, you cannot accomplish
what is required by mankind.

        BEETS:  Lyn, that's one of the most beautiful things about
the relationship of mankind as a unique species to the Universe
itself.  We're not the same as the Creator, obviously, but we
resonate with that principle of Creation; and our own development
is guided by the principles of organization of the Universe.  We
{have} to go into space in order to advance; and our progress in
space is going to contribute to the further development of that
Universe, and the further perfection and improvement of that

        LAROUCHE: You've got the history of discovery of the space
program; which was developed by Germans, working from the western
part of Germany and moving closer to the United States itself.
And they themselves created and generated a view of mankind which
provides us with an insight into the actual, efficient practice
of what mankind can do in terms of the stars.

        DENISTON:  And they were doing much of this before they were
even allowed to pursue it.  They were looking for support; they
were looking for people, even before World War I you had these
early visionaries.  And then up before World War II, they were
already thinking all these things; and they were trying to find
sane governments that would actually support this endeavor.

        LAROUCHE:  Like the Moon exploration, which was done

        DENISTON:  All the way back to Jules Verne and some —

        LAROUCHE:  But Jules Verne was not a real good contribution
to anything.  But what was actually being done, by the space
program, by the people on the Moon project, that was really
working.  And that was what actually turned into a mechanism in
order to create an insight into mankind's potential beyond what
mankind had previously understood to be the kinds of things that
could be experimentally achieved.

        DENISTON:  Always for me, the first thing that comes out is,
all of sudden, you're talking about mankind; you're not talking
one nation or one culture or one people.  You're talking about
what is it about us as a unique species on this planet that we
can pursue these things.

        LAROUCHE:  The main thing is, what about the people from
Germany, originally from their Moon project in Germany, actually
created this whole system.  And that whole tendency depends upon
that; it depends upon that precedent.  German scientists who
actually came into the United States; developed a program; and
applied the program; which gave the United States today the
ability to do what it has not been doing recently so far.

        ROGERS:  Yeah, and they had a sense of creative imagination
which was different than what some people get inspired by the
space program.  A lot of people talk about the science fiction
Star Wars, all of this stuff, that really doesn't characterize
the true nature of mankind to bring these ideas into existence.
For instance, Krafft Ehricke, von Braun, all of these great
German scientists, they had such extraordinary imaginations; and
they put forth the programs that were necessary to expand
mankind's existence beyond Earth, beyond the Moon, and into the
outer reaches of the Solar System in a way that nobody else could
do, in a way that could be accomplished and become real.  Because
they understood that man had the power to bring this into
existence; it wasn't just some far out science fiction thing, but
this was the destiny of mankind.  To conquer the Solar System; to
reach mankind's extra-terrestrial imperative.  And it's
completely different than what people get inspire by today —
Hollywood movies and Star Wars, and all of this stuff that is not

        STEGER:  Well, it's Bach; the real question is Bach.  Krafft
Ehricke, Werner von Braun, they set up Classical quartets in
these rural towns in Alabama where they were sent to do this
space research.  If you really think about what Bach propagated
as a quality of culture of the Universe itself; he took what
Kepler had initiated and continued it and maintained it so you
could get this level of scientific advancement.  It really is the
question of what drove Einstein.  What drove the questions of
what's governing the heavens?  Even going back to the ancient
world, this question of music and composition that Bach really
made clear, seems to have captured the imagination of man in a
way which makes space travel possible.

        LAROUCHE:  I think the key thing to look at is Krafft
Ehricke. Now, Krafft Ehricke became the maker of the whole space
program; he did it.  And the method he was using was to the same
effect; and therefore it was to the idea that there was some
process of the human mind, the creative powers of the human
individual mind.  This is what can be used, and must be used, as
the instrument for bringing the achievements which mankind will
find in due course.  And Krafft Ehricke is an illustration of
that point; if you look at the history of what he did, and then
you apply that to what has been going on still from Texas now.
The elements from there are still there.  But this was a
discovery which came from eastern Germany, which was carried
through the period of the war; which went into the southern parts
of the United States to build a program which was supported by
American officials and so forth.  And to presume Krafft Ehricke's
achievements; which were terminated because he had a very
complicated health problem, and he died under those conditions.
But the principle of the matter is still alive.  He had been dead
for some years, but the principle on which he was expressed and
which led and prompted other people who would listen to him; that
is still a principle which is important.
        So, it's not a practical principle; it's not something that
you can measure simply, as a yardstick or something of that
nature.  This was the achievement of a particular man, among
other men doing the same kind of work, which created the
possibility of mankind's systemic mastery of the Universe.

        DENISTON:  I think that's our reference point for today.
Anything less than that, and we're failing to achieve the
requirements for mankind.

        LAROUCHE:  Yeah, they're important.

        BEETS:  And I think that quality is what we have to
re-awaken within the United States; it's a specific reference
point from Germany, but in the United States.  And I think it's
important to recognize that you have all these beautiful
developments around the world, but unless we can shift the United
States, it doesn't matter.  We actually have to turn this and
re-awaken this true principle of the United States that you've
been expressing in order to make this shift to the New Paradigm.

        LAROUCHE:  And what you know, of course, from your own
experience, in terms of what we do with the Moon; the Moon
project, which is what our destiny is from the standpoint of
China right now.

        BEETS:  Yeah, if Americans realized that in two years, we
could join China on the far side of the Moon, I think they'd have
a far different outlook for the immediate future.

        LAROUCHE:  I think that's where we want to push people's
attention to that thing as a commitment.

        DENISTON:  Yes; always the unknown.

        LAROUCHE:  Unknown?  Who's unknown?

        BEETS:  Is there anything else from you three joining us by

        SARE:  To tune in tomorrow at 12:30pm.  If you're in New
York, you should be there.

        BEETS:  Good.  Well, I think that will bring this discussion
to a close.  I think it's a very good point to end on; and as
Diane said, tune in tomorrow on this website at 12:30pm and then
again at 3pm for this event being broadcast from Manhattan.  So,
thank you all; thanks Lyn.  Thank you all for joining us; and
stay tuned.

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