Pressekonference den 5. februar 2025 på FN Byen i København.
Inkl. Executive Intelligence Reviews to spørgsmål.
Video, Lyd, afskrift:
Francesca Albanese, UN rapporteur for the occupied Palestinian territories.
Press conference on Feb. 5, 2025 at UN City in Copenhagen.
Includes Executive Intelligence Review’s two questions.
Video, audio, transcript.
Her er lydfilen.
Here is the audio file.
Read the English version below.
Francesca Albaneses hovedpointer var, at alle nationer er forpligtet til at stoppe det folkemord, der foregår i de besatte palæstinensiske områder, at Israel skal trække sig ud af disse områder, og at Palæstina skal anerkendes som en selvstændig nation.
Francesca Albanese’s main points were that all nations are required to stop the genocide that is going on in the Palestinian occupied territories, that Israel must pull out of these areas, and that Palestine must be recognized as an independent nation.
Executive Intelligence Review stillede de to første spørgsmål til Francesca Albanese. Det første spørgsmål handlede om Oase-planen, der første gang blev foreslået af Lyndon LaRouche i 1975.
Her er det første EIR-spørgsmål stillet af journalist Michelle Rasmussen:
Efter identifikation: “Jeg har et spørgsmål om at gennemføre en Oase-plan for fred gennem økonomisk udvikling og forbinde en politisk løsning med en økonomisk løsning.
Mit magasin Executive Intelligence Review og dets grundlægger Lyndon LaRouche foreslog i 1975 og efterfølgende en Oase-plan for samarbejde mellem et uafhængigt Palæstina, Israel, regionen og andre, nu også kineserne, om afsaltning af vand, nye vandoverførselskanaler og anden moderne infrastruktur.
Tror du, at noget sådant kan være med til at bryde cirklen af vold og had ved at skabe en fremtidig vision om samarbejde til gavn for alle, som kan være med til at bane vejen fra folkemord til fred og give folk håb?
Du sagde i et interview efter våbenhvileaftalen, at Palæstina er en test for menneskeheden i forhold til, hvad vi nu vil gøre.
Kan du kommentere behovet for internationalt samarbejde om genopbygning og økonomisk udvikling, herunder noget i retning af en Oase-plan, for at sikre en anstændig fremtid for palæstinenserne?”
På grund af et lydproblem troede Francesca Albanese desværre, at spørgsmålet handlede om »USA’s plan« og ikke om »Oase-planen«.
Det andet spørgsmål handlede om hendes reaktion på præsident Trumps opfordring til USA om at overtage Gaza og fjerne alle palæstinenserne.
En aktivist fra Schiller Instituttet uddelte 100 Oase-plan flyveblade foran FN-Byen til journalister, der skulle til pressekonference, og til FN-ansatte, og 200 flyveblade efter Francesca Albaneses møde på Københavns Universitet dagen efter.
Se den 14 min.-lange video: Støt LaRouches Oase-plan for fred og udvikling mellem Israel og Palæstina, og i Sydvestasien. Se og del den 14 min. video
Læs hele pressekonference afskriftet nedenfor.
English:
Executive Intelligence Review asked the first two questions to Francesca Albanese.
The first question was about the Oasis Plan, first proposed by Lyndon LaRouche in 1975.
Here is the first EIR question posed by journalist Michelle Rasmussen:
Foto: Michelle Rasmussen, Executive Intelligence Review
English: Read the English transcript below the partial Danish translation.
Her er den første del af et let redigerede udskrift af Francesca Albaneses indledende bemærkninger under pressekonferencen.
Jeg vil gerne sige tak. Godmorgen, alle sammen. Jeg er meget glad for at være sammen med jer i dag i København. Jeg må sige, at jeg er positivt overrasket over at se lokalet temmelig fyldt og så mange af jer her, da jeg blev ret negativt overrasket over at forstå, at så sent som i går besluttede to fremtrædende medier i dette land pludselig at aflyse vores længe planlagte interviews uden nogen forklaring, og lige før mit besøg. Så jeg tror, at det danske medieøkosystem, ligesom i andre lande, herunder mit eget [Italien], ikke er immunt over for pres. Men jeg tror, jeg tog fejl, og der er i det mindste undtagelser. Så mange tak, fordi I er her. Velkommen til alle.
Jeg har et tætpakket program forude i de kommende dage, hvor jeg skal tale om menneskerettighedssituationen i de besatte palæstinensiske områder. Jeg er her efter anmodning og invitation fra en koalition af danske civilsamfundsaktører og græsrodsorganisationer, som har arbejdet hårdt i månedsvis for at forberede dette besøg.
Vi står ved en meget interessant og farlig korsvej. Det tror jeg, alle fornemmer. Efter 15 måneder giver våbenhvilen i Gaza og de gensidige gidselfrigivelser – der er også fanger på den palæstinensiske side, der er mange gidsler – et lyspunkt. Det er der ingen tvivl om.
Men på trods af alt dette er situationen på jorden fortsat katastrofal. Men lad mig starte med at minde jer om det besatte palæstinensiske område og min juridiske vurdering. Sidste år konkluderede jeg, først efter seks måneders og derefter 12 måneders efterforskning, at der var rimelig grund til at tro, at Israel havde begået folkedrab i Gaza. Sidste år sagde jeg også, at Israel brugte det, jeg kaldte humanitær camouflage, til at retfærdiggøre sine operationer i Gaza ved at bruge international humanitær lov-jargon som »menneskelige skjolde, følgeskader, sikre zoner og evakueringsordrer« for at retfærdiggøre og normalisere angrebet, det hensynsløse angreb på civile liv. Det er blevet brugt til at camouflere folkedrab.
Og i min anden rapport argumenterede jeg for, at – jeg havde vedvarende dokumenteret angrebene i Gaza, men også, at den vold, vi havde set i Gaza, sivede ud over resten af det besatte palæstinensiske område. Og dette var en del af en proces med kolonial udslettelse. Argumenterne om, at Israel ønsker at udrydde Hamas, uanset hvad det betyder, eller befri gidslerne, var ikke hoveddrivkraften bag den omfattende ødelæggelse, som Israel har sluppet løs mod Gaza. Som jeg advarede om den 12. oktober 2023, ville Israel have forsøgt at gribe muligheden for at få mere land og tvangsforflytte det palæstinensiske folk.
Mine ord var profetiske. Landet har, i et forsøg på at genskabe det, som nogle politikere kaldte en anden Nakba [katastrofen], og i den proces, begået folkemord i krigens tåge. Israelske embedsmænd har åbent talt for en total udslettelse af Gaza og for massefordrivelse, tvangsfordrivelse af palæstinensere, som det skete i 1947, 1949 og 1967. Alt dette for at realisere en stat Israel kun for jøder, fra floden til havet.
Dette fortsætter, mens vi taler, fordi folkedrabet på palæstinenserne stadig er i gang, ligesom det ikke begyndte i 2023. Vi ved, at folkedrab er processer, ikke handlinger, ikke enkeltstående handlinger. Folkemord er en anden forbrydelse end krigsforbrydelser og forbrydelser mod menneskeheden. Vi kan ikke lede efter hensigten med et forstørrelsesglas. Vi er nødt til at træde et skridt tilbage og se hensigten. Hensigten om at ødelægge en gruppe som sådan, et folk som sådan. Og de sidste 15 måneder har ført til ødelæggelsen – det ved I allerede. Jeg er sikker på, at jeg ikke behøver at gennemgå listen med data. De 70 % ødelagte hjem. Ikke flere universiteter, ikke flere skoler, få hospitaler findes stadig og er stadig stærkt reducerede, ude af stand til at fungere. Der er ingen mulighed for at genoptage et normalt liv i Gaza.
Og de mennesker, der nu bevæger sig gennem murbrokkerne for at lede efter resterne af deres elskede og forsøge at give dem en værdig begravelse, de er overlevende fra folkedrabet. De har overlevet 15 måneders ubarmhjertige bombardementer og drab, også fra snigskytter. Der er dokumentation om børn, som er blevet skudt i overkroppen og i hovedet. Og de har boet i telte uden nogen form for værdig adgang til vand, husly og mad.
Disse mennesker har brug for hjælp! Det er det, vi virkelig må fordøje, at dette er en befolkning af folkedrabsoverlevere, og de skal reddes, før vi tænker på, hvem der skal genopbygge Gaza. Selvfølgelig skal og vil Gaza blive genopbygget, men ingen andre end palæstinenserne har ret til at sige, hvordan Gaza skal genopbygges. Det er noget, vi er nødt til at tilegne os.
Lad mig gå hurtigt frem. Jeg er chokeret over at se, hvor lidt det internationale samfund, herunder lande i Europa, har registreret det seismiske paradigmeskifte, som ICJ’s, Den Internationale Domstols, rådgivende udtalelse sidste år har medført. Det faktum, at det er en rådgivende udtalelse, betyder ikke, at den ikke er bindende. Den er bindende, fordi den er baseret på ufravigelige normer i international lov.
Denne rådgivende udtalelse har konkluderet, at den israelske tilstedeværelse, ikke bare den militære tilstedeværelse, den israelske tilstedeværelse, både hæren og bosættelserne, er retsstridig. Den skal ophøre betingelsesløst og så hurtigt som muligt og fuldstændigt. Så Israel skal fjerne alt det materielle og immaterielle, håndgribelige og uhåndgribelige, civile og militære, som de har etableret i de besatte palæstinensiske områder. Punktum.
Og der er også en deadline for, hvornår det skal ske, nemlig den 16. september i år. Det er, hvad Generalforsamlingen har givet som tidsramme for Israel til at overholde. Og ved I hvorfor? Fordi besættelsen knuser det palæstinensiske folks ret til selvbestemmelse.
Resten af den danske oversættelse kommer senere, men her er Francesca Albaneses svar til EIR’s spørgsmål om Trumps udtalelse om, at USA burde overtage Gaza og fjerne alle palæstinenserne:
Trump – åh, hvor skal jeg begynde? Det korte svar på dit spørgsmål er, at det han foreslår er det rene nonsens. Og det er retsstridigt. De, han foreslår – jeg mener, folk taler om etnisk udrensning. Nej, det er værre. Det er værre. Det er tvungen fordrivelse. Det er opfordring til at gennemføre tvangsfordrivelse, hvilket er en international forbrydelse. Tvangsfordrivelse og yderligere afsavn. Og i forbindelse med et folkemord mener jeg, at det vil styrke Israels medskyldighed i de forbrydelser, de har begået i de sidste 15 måneder og tidligere. Det er ulovligt, umoralsk og uansvarligt. Det er fuldstændig uansvarligt, fordi det vil gøre den regionale krise endnu værre. Og jeg håber virkelig, at folk vil bevare roen, ikke gå i panik og huske på, at det internationale samfund består af 193 stater, og at det nu er tid til at tildele USA, hvad det har ledt efter – isolation.
Dette er muligheden for at genoplive eller give mening til et samarbejde, der bygger på respekt for grundlæggende regler. Der er en grund til, at international lov findes. Og se, der er Haag – jeg ved ikke, om du har fulgt det initiativ, der for nylig blev søsat af ni lande i Haag, Haag-gruppen, en række stater, der har forpligtet sig til at gennemføre grundlæggende foranstaltninger for at sikre ansvarlighed og afslutningen på straffrihed i de besatte palæstinensiske områder. Det er en model, som andre bør følge, og jeg håber virkelig, at Danmark, som har været meget principfast, meget principfast i andre sager, i andre regioner i verden, slutter sig til gruppen og initiativet.
Læs hele afskriftet på engelsk nedenunder. Der er markeret der, hvor den danske oversættelse slap.
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English: The entire transcript
Here is the slightly edited transcript of Francesca Albanese’s opening remarks and the Q&A during the press conference.
Thank you. Good morning. I’m very happy to be with you today in Copenhagen. I have to say that I’m positively surprised to see the room pretty packed and so many of you here, given that I was quite negatively surprised to understand that just yesterday, two prominent media outlets in this country suddenly decided to cancel our long scheduled interviews without any explanation, and just before my visit. So, I do think that, like in other countries, including my own [Italy], the Danish media ecosystem is not immune to pressure. But I guess I was wrong, and at least there are exceptions. So thank you very much for being here. Welcome to all.
I have a dense program ahead these coming few days, to talk about the human rights situation in the occupied Palestinian territory. I am here at the request and invitation of a coalition of Danish civil society actors and grassroots organizations, which have worked hard for months to prepare this visit.
We are at a very interesting and dangerous crossroad. I think everyone senses it. After 15 months, the ceasefire in Gaza and the mutual hostage releases — there are also prisoners on the Palestinian side, there are many hostages — these offer a ray of hope. There is no question.
However, the situation on the ground remains catastrophic despite all this. But let me start by putting the occupied Palestinian territory and my legal assessment in your mind. Last year, I concluded, first after six months, and then 12 months of investigation altogether, that there were reasonable grounds to believe that Israel had committed acts of genocide in in Gaza. I also said, last year, that Israel used what I called humanitarian camouflage, used to justify its operations in Gaza, by using international humanitarian law jargon like “human shields, collateral damage, safe zones, and evacuation orders,” in order to justify and to normalize the assault, the reckless assault on civilian life. This has been used to camouflage acts of genocide.
And in my second report, I argued that– I had continued to document the attacks in Gaza, but also, that the violence that we had seen in Gaza, was leaking out across the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory. And this was part and parcel of a process of colonial erasure. The arguments that Israel wants to eradicate Hamas, whatever it means, or liberate the hostages, were not the main drive behind the wholesome destruction that Israel has unleashed against Gaza. As I warned on October 12, 2023, Israel would have tried to seize the opportunity to get more land, and forcibly displace the Palestinian people.
My words were prophetic. In an attempt to reproduce what some politicians called a second Nakba [the catastrophe], and in the process, it has committed acts of genocide under the fog of war. Israeli public officials have openly advocated for a total erasure of Gaza and for mass displacement, forced displacement of Palestinians, as it had happened in 1947, 1949 and in 1967. All these to realize a state of Israel for Jews only, from the river to the sea.
This continues as we speak, because the genocide of the Palestinians is still ongoing, just as it did not begin in 2023. We know that genocides are processes, not acts, not single acts. Genocide is a different crime than war crimes and crimes against humanity. We cannot look for the intent with a magnifying glass. We need to take a step back and see the intent. The intention to destroy a group as such, a people as such. And the past 15 months have led to the destruction — you know that already. I’m sure that I don’t need to go through the list of data. The 70% of homes destroyed. No more universities, no more schools, few hospitals still standing and still decimated, unable to function. There is no possibility to resume a normal life in Gaza.
And, plus, the people who now move across the rubble looking for the remains of their beloved ones, trying to give them a dignified burial, they are genocide survivors. They have survived the 15 months of relentless bombing and killing, including by sniper fire. There is documentation of children who have been shot in the torso and in the head. And they have been living in tents without any dignified access to water, shelter, food.
These people need to be helped! This is what we should really absorb, that this is a population of genocide survivors, and they need to be rescued before thinking about who’s going to rebuild Gaza. Of course, Gaza is going to be rebuilt and will be rebuilt, but no one has the right to say how Gaza will be rebuilt other than the Palestinians. This is something that we need to absorb.
Let me go fast forward. I’m shocked to see how little the international community, including countries in Europe, have registered the seismic paradigm shift that has been prompted by the ICJ, the International Court of Justice, advisory opinion last year. The fact that it’s an advisory opinion doesn’t mean that it’s not binding. It’s binding because it’s premised upon non-derogable norms of international law.
This advisory opinion has concluded that the Israeli presence, not just the military presence, Israeli presence, both army and settlements, is unlawful. It is to be ceased unconditionally, and as soon as possible, and totally. So, Israel needs to remove whatever material and immaterial, tangible and intangible, civilian and military, it has established in the occupied Palestinian territory. Full stop.
And there is also a deadline for it to happen, the 16th of September this year. This is what the General Assembly has given as a time frame for Israel to comply. And do you know why? Because the occupation crushes the right of self-determination of the Palestinian people.
Here is where the Danish translation ended for now.
We Western people do not understand what self-determination is, because we enjoy it, because we have it. Self-determination is the right to exist free as a people, to determine oneself, as a people, politically, economically, culturally. This is something that the Palestinians cannot do under Israeli rule, including in the little that remains of their land, the Gaza Strip, West Bank and East Jerusalem.
And let me remind everyone, this is the land that international consensus, I would say at least 192 states, minus Israel, (things might change right now, but it might become 191, it’s still okay, it’s still international consensus), recognize the right of exclusive rights of self-determination as statehood to the Palestinians. Which doesn’t mean that Jewish people cannot live in the occupied Palestinian territory. If they want to live there, first of all, it will not be on stolen Palestinian land, and they will not be Israeli citizens. They will be under Palestinian law, as simple as that. Meanwhile, Israel needs to withdraw.
In the face of all this, and this will be my last comment, I’m also shocked by the defiance of international law, not just of Israel, not just of Israel, but international — most of most countries in the international community, particularly the West, particularly the West, which has been preaching about compliance with international law with each and every country in the global South for the past decades. The ICC has issued arrest warrants for two Israeli leaders, three Palestinian leaders as well, Hamas leaders as well, but they have already been killed. There are two people who — and there should be more, in my view — who are wanted by the International Criminal Court. And a number of countries have run forward in order to shelter, to ensure that these people will be sheltered from accountability, so they have fully embraced impunity.
The International Court of Justice has concluded, already in January last year, that there was a plausible risk for the rights of the Palestinians in Gaza protected under the Genocide Convention, meaning it has recognized the plausibility of genocide, and it has issued not once, but twice, three times, provisional measures that have not been complied with, of course, by Israel, but not just by Israel, because all member states, including Denmark, have a clear responsibility toward international law. They should suspend all ties, especially economic and military ties with Israel.
So the question you should ask your government, if you have not done it yet, is “What are you doing to comply with the ICJ advisory opinion, with the ICC arrest warrants, including by securing that there are all domestic mechanisms in place to investigate and prosecute anyone who might have committed crimes in the occupied Palestinian territory?”
It’s regrettable that, in fact, the the government in this country is moving, but in the opposite direction, because I understand that it intends to pass a law to make investigation and prosecution of the crimes committed in Palestine, and trust me, it will be applied elsewhere, more difficult. So, as someone who deeply believes in human rights and justice, I firmly stand against this lawlessness, and encourage the government of Denmark to comply with its obligations to stop doing anything that translates into aiding and assisting Israel’s unlawful occupation, apartheid regime and, recently, an ongoing genocide. Thank you.
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Question and answer period moderated by Noa Valentin Katz Søgaard Head of UN City Communications:
Executive Intelligence Review: Thank you. Francesca. I am Michele Rasmussen from the Executive Intelligence Review in the United States. And I have two questions. The first is, I have a question about implementing an Oasis plan for peace through economic development, and connecting a political solution to an economic solution. Because my magazine, and its founding editor, Lyndon LaRouche, back in 1975, came out with an Oasis plan for cooperation between an independent Palestine, Israel, the regional countries, now also possibly including the Chinese, for water desalinization, new water-transfer canals and basic modern infrastructure.
So, do you think that something like this could help break this cycle of violence and hate by creating a future vision of cooperation for the benefit of everyone, which could help pave a path from genocide to peace, and give people hope? Because you said in a recent interview that, what we do for Palestine, is a test for humanity, of what we want to do next. So, could you comment on the need for international cooperation, for reconstruction and economic development, including something like an Oasis plan to ensure a decent future for Palestinians?
[Unfortunately, because of an audio problem, Francesca Albanese thought that the question was about the “U.S. Plan” and not the “Oasis Plan.”] Then I have a second question if it’s possible.The other question is, of course, what do you say to President Trump’s statement yesterday that the United States should take over Gaza Strip, and throw out all the Palestinians.
Francesca Albanese: I was waiting for this question.
Before being the UN special rapporteur on the occupied Palestinian territory, I’ve devoted a decent number of years to the question of Palestine as a UN official first, and then as a scholar. And I know the question of Palestine through the perspective and through the story, the experience of its people, Palestinian refugees, in fact, we shouldn’t call them Palestinian refugees. We should call the Palestinians Nakba survivors, because this gives for the Palestinians, the fact of being refugees, not just being, like it’s not just a matter of legal status, it’s a matter of having been deprived of a homeland that, as Edward Said, used to say existed one day, and is no more.
So as such, I can tell you, for decades, for decades, the international community has treated the question of Palestine as something that could be managed in perpetuity, through means of development, economic incentives and encouraging growth, whatever it means, or managing it as a humanitarian crisis. And frankly, after, let’s say, at least the 56, 57, but in fact, it’s 76 years, it doesn’t work.
And you know why? Because, of course, economic development must happen. Of course, cooperation is necessary, but not at the expense of fundamental rights and freedoms, which is what, Israel, the United States, more openly than ever, and others, seem to expect that the Palestinians will accept. Like all indigenous people in the world, the Palestinians will never surrender. They will fight and they will resist. I mean, when I say fight, I do not mean armed resistance. They will fight for recognition of their rights and their dignity. And so, no, the short answer is no. Economic peace through economic development is expectation of surrender. And it will not work, because everyone has the right to be free, and to gain self-determination as a people. This is a collective right.
Executive Intelligence Review: The question was including a sovereign Palestine.
Francesca Albanese: Well, but this is not what has been talked about. I mean, the argument of sovereignty is used as a rhetorical one, I mean, just to kick the can in the air, because then when it comes to — you know, the only thing that is to be done, to allow a Palestinian state is not to, excuse me, ambassador [referring to H.E. Ambassador Prof. Dr. Manuel Hassassian, the Palestinian ambassador to Denmark], it’s not to fund the Palestinian Authority. It’s not to tell the Palestinian Authority how to reform. This is not our business. We don’t go to other countries telling them — we should probably in some countries, tell them, advise people whom to elect. You’re from the U.S., right? And we don’t do that. So the same thing applies to the Palestinians. I mean, the only thing we need to do to ensure a Palestinian state is to make sure that Israel withdraws troops, settlements, controls over resources. As simple as that. There is no other way around. The rest is hypocrisy. And frankly, the world has had enough of it. So no, it’s not going to happen. And so the next point you are raising is, is economic development going to break the cycle of violence? No. No. If there is one thing that I’m 100% sure of, the answer is no.
What happened in the last 15 months, what happened 15 months ago, and what has happened over and over, the violence in Palestine — And let’s be very, very blunt. Palestinians, they are not violent people. They are people who want to live in peace and freedom. And the fact that they might have resorted to violence at various points, and they might have committed crimes against the Israelis during 76 years of dispossession and displacement, is to be read as mirroring the violence they have been subject to.
So, the only way to stop the cycles of violence, is to give peace a chance through freedom, through full recognition of freedom. And this is not going to bring a decent future for the Palestinians, only, but for the Palestinians and the Israelis. I always have tried to have this inclusive language, because there are a few Israelis who are fighting against genocide, against occupation and against apartheid, and they should not be invisibilized. They are an important actor in the process.
Trump. Oh, where to start? The short the short answer to your question is what he proposes is utter nonsense. And it’s unlawful. What he proposes — I mean, people talk of ethnic cleansing. No. It’s worse. It’s worse. It’s forced displacement. It’s inciting to commit forced displacement, which is an international crime. Forced displacement and further dispossession. And in the context of a genocide, I mean, it will strengthen the complicity in the crimes that Israel has been committing over the past 15 months and before. It’s unlawful, immoral and irresponsible. It’s completely irresponsible, because it will make the regional crisis even worse. And I truly hope that people will stay calm, will not panic, and will remember that the international community is made of 193 states, and this is the time to give the U.S. what it has been looking for — isolation.
This is the opportunity to revive, or to to give meaning to cooperation premised upon respect of basic rules. International law is there for a reason. And look as there is The Hague — I don’t know if you have followed the initiative launched recently by nine countries in The Hague, The Hague Group, a number of states who have committed to implementing basic measures to ensure accountability, and the end of impunity in the occupied Palestinian territory. This is a model that others should follow, and I truly hope that Denmark, which has been very principled, very principled on other matters, on other regions of the world, joins the group and the initiative.
H.E. Ambassador Prof. Dr. Manuel Hassassian, Palestinian ambassador to Denmark: Thank you. Ms. Albanese, for being with us today. And I would start first by acknowledging and revering your position, that has always been very consistent with the facts on the ground. People think that you are biased for the Palestinians, but in fact, you have been the most pragmatic rapporteur that we have ever seen since 2022. And saying this, let me start with a premise, which is going to shock the people here when it comes, basically, about the resolution of this conflict. I believe that today, Palestinians and Israelis are stuck between the historically inevitable and the politically impossible, and we rely on the international community to shoulder the two-state solution, which has been adopted since 1994, as a result of the Oslo peace process, and unfortunately, the United States, that was supposed to be the honest broker of peace, became a total partisan, in trying, more or less, to push the agenda of the Israelis over the Palestinians. And, of course, the Americans have lost their credibility, not only among the Palestinians, but even among the Arab world. And today, we have a president that I would consider daringly a bully, who is trying to bully the entire world in order to achieve the national interests of the United States. He deals with the Palestinians as if we are ants, he could move us from Gaza, rebuild Gaza, make it Singapore, a place where the Americans could thrive economically, without paying attention to, that the Palestinians struggle for self-determination is the 14th article of a president called Woodrow Wilson, where the international community has practiced that right, except for the Palestinians, which is considered to be, today, one of the longest modern occupations in history.
And we have seen the onslaught of Trump, let alone Biden, on the agencies of the United Nations, especially UNRWA, the recent onslaught on UNRWA, to close down their offices in Jerusalem, is a sign that there is no right of return for the Palestinians. This is killing the refugee issue, and this is what they’re basically trying to do.
The United States wants to eradicate the Palestinian problem by forceful diasporization, by displacement, by ethnic cleansing, and by supporting Israel to basically control that part of the world, with a close proximity of interests of the United States in the region. And today, what we are witnessing in the Middle East are dramatic draconian changes that are basically going in the wrong direction. And this is partly because of the non-unity of the Arab countries, where they are fractionalized in their positions when it comes to U.S. policy in the region.
And I think if we cannot get united with the Europeans, and with other countries — and today, the threats of Trump for Europe, in terms of tariffs, Canada and what have you, all these signs, if it proves something, it does not prove the Pax Americana that we wanted to see back in the 1990s. We are seeing a total hegemony, a new imperialism, that basically has been trying to impose its position on the world, and trying to unilaterally rule over the world through its hegemonic processes.
And of course, as you are a human rights lawyer, and you represent the United Nations, and you are very well-spoken on this issue, to what extent do you think, you coming from an Italian background, from Europe, you could have a certain kind of an impetus, I would say, on the European countries to start moving. Because we cannot see any kind of change coming from the Middle East itself. It has to come from the Europeans, who are considered to be the natural allies of the United States. And in particular, I would like to see the government of Denmark talk the talk and not walk the walk. And this is what is happening today, where they are totally submissive to the dictate of American policies in the region, regardless of their position, in terms of human rights, and in developing Palestinian infrastructure. But we don’t see a clear position on the decimation, the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians by this government, which is considered to be a rightist government.
And that’s why I think it’s about time that we have to shoulder our responsibilities as an international community. We have to push for the International Criminal Court justice resolutions, and we have to continue our struggle democratically, and not by using violence. Violence is rejected by the Palestinians. And I speak in terms of the Authority of the Palestinians. We are against violence. We don’t believe that violence is going to bring our rights for self-determination, but it’s through political accommodation. And we have done that in 1988, when we had our historic compromise, painful compromise, in accepting Israel on 78% of the land, and accepting 22% of the remaining Palestine. And this is our position. We believe that through pragmatism, through political accommodation, through negotiations, as recent U.S. presidents have promised us, where we can see the oxymoron represented in President Trump, that negates all kinds of agreements in the past, and opens a new avenue for continued conflict in the Middle East. Thank you very much for your presence, and thank you for your presentation.
Noa Valentin Katz Søgaard Head of UN City Communications: Thank you. Ambassador. There was a question in there, but let’s have another one, also in the interest of time.
Jordan News Agency: Thank you. My name is Osama. I’m from Jordan News Agency. I have a couple of questions. You started by saying that a couple of Danish media channels canceled their arriving here with you. So my question is, how do you describe the Western media coverage of what’s happening in Gaza and the occupied West Bank now? That’s the first question. Being in Denmark, my second question is, what’s your message to the Danish government regarding the ICJ resolutions, and regarding that Denmark is exporting weapons to Israel?
Francesca Albanese: First, a comment. Again whatever Israel’s ambitions in in destroying UNWRA, again, which is another abysmal phenomenon, which shouldn’t happen, because UNWRA is a subsidiary body of the General Assembly. Only the General Assembly can decide the future, the mandate or the cessation of the agency. So, if Israel, the United States, and other member states, who are defunding UNWRA, are against the continuation of the agency, they need to go through, and respect respect UN law, and go through the General Assembly, not operate outside the system because this is unlawful.
But, however, it will not kill the right of return, simply because the right of return is established under international law, that predates the creation of the state of Israel. So this is something that people need to absorb.
The impetus I can give to European countries, as a person? Look, my role is pretty limited, in the sense that the United Nations expects me to monitor, report on the situation in the occupied Palestinian territory, and produce a legal assessment. To assess the human rights situation, which as I said, is catastrophic. And of course, I make recommendations. I’ve done the utmost to deliver my mandate in the most effective way, which is making sure that people listen. And what I think I might have helped, Palestinians, especially, but also some Israelis who stand with them for a non-apartheid land between the river and the sea, is to make sure that people understand the framework.
We should stop calling what happens in that land as a conflict, unless we understand that it’s a conflict of a very specific nature, which happens in a settler colonial paradigm, where Israel — let’s put aside its foundations, etc., but since 1967, has actually pursued, and steadily pursued policies to acquire the control over the land that remained of Palestine and displace its people, its residents, its inhabitants. This is what settler colonialism is about. And of course, as history should tell us, if we bothered to look at it and learn from it, that settler colonialism is intimately, quintessentially genocidal, because it will result, sooner or later, in the annihilation of the indigenous people, if it succeeds.
Look at the United States. The United States is a country birthed from a genocide. Many genocides, in fact, as Indigenous American, Native American scholars teach us, many genocides. And so there have been many genocides in Latin America and in Africa. This is our history as a European. Denmark has its own — I mean, of course, there are major colonizers, and Denmark has its own history, so probably you don’t feel that responsible for the past. But it’s our European past, and so we should do better today.
So, this is what I aim to do, continue to bring attention to the facts, the context, the history, and what are the international law obligations. And here, let me move to the — then I will go back to what I think of negotiation. It’s a risky argument.
But the question of what is my message to the Danish government? First of all, my visit aims to speak to whomever wants to listen. And I think that those who want to listen the most here, considering the demand, are the Danish people. So the point and the message is, my request to the government is, please respect international law. You have clear international law obligations. Under the law of state responsibility, Denmark is called upon to not aid and assist an internationally wrongful act. And Israel maintains an occupation which, as I said, is ontologically illegal. So, the Danish government should explain, should reveal all the ties that it maintains with Israel, diplomatic, political, military, strategic, research-wise, and should suspend anything that, according to the ICJ advisory opinion, is found potentially detrimental to the rights of the Palestinians. And, therefore, the minimum is to suspend arms, the arms trade, arms deals with Israel not to sell, not to buy.
This is something that the International Court of Justice has also reminded member states, in the context of the genocide case. There are two cases pending before the ICJ: South Africa versus Israel, and then Nicaragua versus Germany. And in the latter, the court has reminded member states of their obligations to not transfer arms, to not have arms deals with countries which are committing violations of the Genocide Convention, but also the Geneva Conventions. So, first of all, there is this responsibility that Denmark will continue to have, even if it tries to circumvent international law, and change its laws so as not to comply with it. It will still be a stain on Denmark and will continue to violate international law, whatever the nationalist camouflages are.
And then the thing that I want to say to the Danish people, it is not just your state that has obligations toward international law, also businesses, private actors. I don’t know if it’s the case here, as in other European countries, but there are dual nationals, I mean, individuals with Israeli nationality who have committed crimes, or who might partake in crimes as individuals, as settlers, as business people who are dealing in the colonies. Well, they should be investigated and prosecuted. And also charities, pension funds, banks. I’m investigating, right now, the complicity of the private sector in that monstrosity that Israel has set up in the occupied Palestinian territory. And I’m telling you, there are quite a few businesses, including located in this country, that I’m investigating, including, it’s no secret, Terma and Maersk. It’s very complicated. I’m carrying out an investigation right now. I will do the utmost to also get in touch with these businesses, like other European businesses that I’m investigating. But again, what I want to say to the lawyers in this country is: act, because it’s also your job to make sure that justice, I mean, justice starts at home. And also ordinary people have a responsibility.
There has been a silencing. And I will go to the other question. The role of the media, in general, in the West, has been unprofessional, unethical, to say the least, in the sense — not only facts have not — and I don’t speak of the Danish media, because I do not know the Danish media enough. I can only tell you that the Danish media is not immune to cancel culture, given the fact that, again, two important media outlets which scheduled interviews, long time, long time ago with me, canceled, yesterday. So there is this tendency to not host, not give a place, so that the voice is heard.
And this is frankly pathetic. It’s so sad, because, in any case, my voice is going to be heard anyway, so it’s their loss. But the point is, not only the media has not told the story. They have chosen which story to tell. Not telling the facts. Not giving context, for example, to what has happened on October 7th. Which doesn’t mean justifying the crimes that have been committed against Israelis. Absolutely, which I’ve condemned, and I’ve called for justice for all the victims. But there is a context, and that context has often been missed. And also what has followed has been misrepresented. The examples: the Palestinians are, by default, referred to as terrorists. And while terrorism is an act, cannot be an individual, I mean, independent, I mean independently from from what the acts, the operations or the ideologies. And, also, the Western media have amplified the Israeli propaganda. Israel lies. Israel lies, and it’s fully documented by commission of inquiry after commissions of inquiry. And, these, notwithstanding, facts have disappeared and international law has been completely sidelined. That’s very, that’s very unprofessional.
But also, I think that there is something worse, because again, there is a genocide, and there is an increasing consensus that there is a genocide ongoing. And like in other genocides, media do play a role. Also the work that international tribunals have revealed in the case of Rwanda, for example, or in the case of the former Yugoslavia. What is shocking here is that the international media has made itself complicit. It’s not just the Israeli media, and not all of them, of course. There are wonderful, wonderful journalists in Israel, and thanks to them, we know a lot, for example, about how artificial intelligence has been used to kill hundreds and hundreds of civilians in Gaza at the time. So, there should be a study and an investigation about how the Western media has acted in the context of this genocide.
One last comment, and this is in connection with negotiation and pragmatism. As I said before, sure, but neither negotiation nor pragmatism can happen at the expense of fundamental rights. The Palestinians should not be negotiating their right of self-determination. The right of self-determination should be the departure. Once the right of self-determination is realized, in the form of statehood as the starting point, then there is negotiation on the relations that Israel and Palestine will have. And one day, maybe they will decide, I mean the Israelis and the Palestinians, will decide to live happily together. Who knows? But the realization of the state, is the ground zero that should be pursued.
Noa Valentin Katz Søgaard: All right. Another question here. Thank you.
Irish journalist: Hello. My name is Claire McCarthy. I’m a journalist from Ireland, and which, as you know, is one of the few places to have recognized the sovereignty of Palestine, and which is working on making it illegal to import things from the settlers, and my government has access to exactly the same intelligence reports as do all the other governments of Western Europe. They know the same stuff. They know more than we’ve seen on our television screens. So my question would be this: why, what explains the reluctance of other Western small countries, or big countries, to do the morally correct thing? And that is to recognize the right, absolute right to self-determination of the Palestinians, and to recognize the genocide for what it undoubtedly is. Thank you.
Jonathan Ofir: My name is Jonathan Ophir. I would like to ask about the West Bank. Francesca Albanese, you have a made a report in late October among elsewhere, warning that the genocide of Gaza may be spreading to the West Bank? And now, precisely after the cease fire has taken place, we seem to have seen a major escalation in attacks and violence and assaults, and even blowing up of houses, serially, in the West Bank, something which seems to be a kind of Gazafization of the West Bank. What is your view of this situation?
AFP: James Brooks from AFP. Given Trump’s comments, what’s your thoughts on the next stage of negotiations, ceasefire negotiations?
Francesca Albanese: Ireland. Well, I think that Ireland is a case in point, in the sense that I do not think that it’s one of the few states that recognize Palestine. It’s one of the few states in Europe, which speaks to the hypocrisy of European countries, because on the one hand, they keep on saying and reciting the mantras of the the two states [solution], but then they don’t do anything to make sure it happens. So what I think — this is why I say we are living in an historical moment. We might not realize what’s happening, but the masks have fallen, and the hypocrisy is fully exposed, and this might propel changes in the way the rest of the world interacts with Europe. Because even that pretense of compliance with international law, that pretense of morality, has gone down the drain.
And I live in the Global South, I move and work across various countries in the Global South, and I can tell you that that sense, that was also probably a legacy of of decades and centuries of colonialism, of the primacy of the West and Europe, is gone. And I’m perfectly fine with it, although, as a European, I resent it. I would like us to be better, to do better, and we can still do better. I will get to this. So I do think that Ireland, inasmuch as it has done a lot, and has been very vocal, especially because of the people, still has some way to go to give full meaning to the recognition of, I mean, to ensure full compliance with international law, because there are still — the settlement bill has not been passed, and recently Ireland referred to the fact of its commitment to endorse the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, which I think shocked everyone — if even Ireland does it. But again, this goes to the why, why Western states, in particular — and this is not just the West. This also applies to many countries in the rest — why these countries cannot, do not comply with their basic obligations under international law, because Palestine is very specific. Palestine is the state of exception, and Israel has enjoyed impunity, like no other state, probably other than the United States, in the world. So, this is the thing. Israel is, on the one hand, an extension, is the remnants of Western colonialism. It’s not considered a middle eastern country by the Israelis itself, first and foremost, or any other country. It seems like a prolongation of Europe, white, non-Muslim Europe. This is the reality. And of course, I know that many Israelis are not Europeans. But, I’m simplifying to say, there is this cultural affinity on the one hand. So Israel has projected itself like the bulwark to protect the Europeans of Western civilization against these “savages.” And again, this is a colonial language. And the thing is, that this colonial language and colonial mentality has a lot of buy-in in our culture, in our European culture. This is something we need to work on. So it’s partly cultural.
A lot of it has to do with geopolitical and economic interests. There is a work, that I strongly recommend everyone to read by Antony Loewenstein, “Palestine Laboratory.” It’s one of the most brilliant investigations I’ve come across on Israel-Palestine, because it really exposes the deep, intimate, real nature of Israel as a military state, a state that produces military services, techniques, intelligence and weapons, and has historically used the Palestinians, first and foremost, Palestine, as a laboratory to test all these, and then to sell its techniques, services and weapons all over the world, including many dictatorships. Israel has been, in a way, it’s not in a technical sense, but been a subcontractor of the U.S., to sell weaponry. This is what Antony Loewenstein reports in his book, to sell weapons and other strategic services to countries that it would have been uncomfortable for, inconvenient for the U.S. to trade with, like dictatorships in Latin America, like Chile and Argentina, but also countries that have committed genocides like, Guatemala, Rwanda and former Yugoslavia. This is all documented, including by Israelis. There is an Israeli lawyer who has done extraordinary exceptional work on this. So, because many countries buy these services, buy these techniques, buy these tools, the drones, the weaponry from Israel, it’s difficult to break that relationship. And this is where our focus, our attention needs to be.
The discussion concerning anti-Semitism. This has nothing to do with real anti-Semitism, which is disgusting and still exists. It’s still a Western problem. But the reason why anti-Semitism is used so much in the past, I mean, in the current times, is to deflect the attention — I mean, the accusation of anti-Semitism, is to deflect the attention from the reality, that Israel is coming under scrutiny for its military nature and the human rights implications of it.
I should have, of course, mentioned the West Bank more in my presentation. Look, since October last year, I’ve been warning the international community that there were discernible patterns of conduct that Israel had deployed in the West Bank, that reminded of what Israel was doing in Gaza.
Francesca Albanese: And I’ve been looking at the shoot-to-kill policy that has been used since October 7th, more and more by the army and the settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which has killed now, in 15 months, around 870 Palestinians, in the West Bank and East Jerusalem alone. These numbers are shocking. 200 of these are children. There are over 9,000 Palestinians from the West Bank who have been arrested and detained, and often tortured, and apparently, many of them raped while in detention. This is something that is shocking. It has happened to the Palestinians in Gaza, but it has also happened to the Palestinians in the West Bank.
And also the other trait, the other feature I documented is that there has been a strategic destruction, this is what I told the told the General Assembly in October, of essential civilian infrastructure, like homes, assaults on hospitals and health facilities, medical professionals and water infrastructure, energy grids, etc. Why? To make the life of the Palestinians more and more difficult. To create conditions of life that might lead, in my view, to the destruction of the Palestinian people. So while I didn’t conclude that there were acts of genocide identifiable in the West Bank, this is the trajectory. And because we know that genocide is a process, and because we know that genocide doesn’t distinguish — genocide is an assault. It’s a aimed at annihilation, aimed at destruction of a people, as such, of a group, as such. So it doesn’t matter if the Palestinians are in are in Gaza, or in the West Bank. They are targeted for ethnic cleansing, and in the process, Israel is committing genocide. So let me say, this is why we don’t need to conclude that Israel has committed acts of genocide in the West Bank, but what it has done, as of the beginning of cease fire in Gaza, is telling. Because the fighting machine has just shifted from the Gaza Strip toward the West Bank. In one day, Israel has detonated 24 buildings, simultaneously. This is not just a war crime. You need to read the totality of conduct, against the totality of the people, in the totality of the land that Israel wants for itself. This gives you the sense of why this is genocide, and why this is a settler colonial genocide.
And then, it is up to the court to determine where where certain acts have been — if the court wants to take that local approach to say, oh, in Jabalia we had the genocidal attacks, and not in Darbala (?), for example. In Gaza there have been genocidal attacks everywhere, but in the West Bank –. But again, we have an obligation, member states have an obligation to prevent genocide. And therefore, what’s happening? These similarities should be a warning and there should be prompt action, but nothing is moving.
The question after the Trump declaration, what is going to happen? Let me be hopeful. So to close on a positive note. Again, as I say, I know that this is going to generate panic across the world, because it bears huge consequences. We live in a world where the United States is ingrained in our politics, in our lifestyle, in everything we do in our economies. So these influences are hugely felt, and no one alone will be able to stand against the United States. But this will be the default option. I mean, it will be either subservience, a world made of vassals, who abide by this lawlessness, this lawlessness and nonsense that is being propagated. And the other, will be to take a principled stance and say, enough, enough. So start disengaging. And again, I want to hope that the American people, first and foremost, most come back to their senses, and oppose this system from within. It might not happen, so it’s up to the other 191 member states to fix this. And again, it’s the entire world. So it should make us feel stronger, rather than be be fearful. We can do better. This is the opportunity to do better.
Noa Valentin Katz Søgaard Head of UN City Communications: Thank you so much for your time this morning. I also want to thank you, dear colleagues …
